Care must also be taken not to undersize the bullet while crimping. In the 1960s, Paul Kopsch (an Ohio coroner), Daniel Turcus (a police sergeant), and Donald Ward (Kopsch's special investigator) began experimenting with special purpose handgun ammunition. http://www.scfirearms.org/2ndamend/ammo.txt, http://www.alphadogweb.com/firearms/copkillerbullets.htm. ACME 45 (.452) 175gr SWC BULLET NLG COATED 100/BX . [1] In an attempt to reduce barrel wear, the steel projectiles had a copper cup which made contact with the rifling, on brass projectiles, brass driving bands are present to engage the rifling. First, we must examine the Hollywood myth around the teflon-coated rounds. Reduced force required to seat and crimp because the bullets are slippery This is the newest coating from the manufacturer and has superb lubricity. These were the same people that were telling us those new plastic Glocks were a bad idea because they could slip passed metal detectors. Oddly enough, Second Chance sold KTW ammunition in the 70s. The main character says he loves 1911s. Powder Coating (PC) is simply the process of treating your cast bullets with a baked-on polymer coating. Very confusing!!! $105.00 No Reviews Write a Review. If you can get them to say that, I will be very surprised. He mentioned something about the bullet slipping right through body armor and not spreading outthen again, that was middle school so who knows. The polymer jacket encapsulates the lead core of the bullet, keeping the lead contained and providing an exterior shell to engage the rifling of the barrel. Sometimes a gun doesn't like a particular bullet/load, and it takes time to find a combo that works, be it cast, coated or jacketed. Armor-piercing handgun ammunition is federally banned for civilian use or ownership in the U.S. [/li] [li]Oregon state law forbids the possession of any handgun ammunition, the bullet or projectile of which is coated with Teflon while committing or intending to commit a felony. Here's an easy way to get bullets coated: Lyman's Super Moly Kit. GO SAFE MAG FOR GLOCK 17. Kevlar is sometimes used as a substitute for Teflon in some non-stick frying pans. Some polymer coatings can reportedly be driven to 2000 fps or better, such as claimed by Eggleston Munitions, which makes them a possible choice for some rifle loads. KTW then turned to steels and non-ferrous alloys which are considerably cheaper to buy and machine.. I don't think the article mentions anything about the bullet diameter being a factor in the penetration ability. Winchester stopped producing the Black Talon round in 2000, and that kind of fed into its mythology and mystique. ), stay with fast powders like Bullseye, AA2, and such. Also available at Standard Deviation Arms. But it smells like burnt clutch plate Are you casting and coating the bullets yourself or are you buying them? By the late 1960s, KTW had begun commercial production. The use of full metal jacketing in military ammunition came about in part because of the need for improved feeding characteristics in small arms that used internal mechanical manipulation of the cartridge in order to chamber rounds as opposed to externally hand-reloading single-shot firearms. . Outdoor Hub, LLC (d/b/a Carbon Media Group), 30800 Telegraph Rd, Suite 1921, Bingham Farms, MI 48025 USA. Incendiaries, to include napalm, flame-throwers, tracer rounds, and white phosphorous, are not illegal per se or illegal by treaty. cast bullets in a Glock,, will blow up,, so many folks will not load them,, for a Glock, I have shot them in a Mod 21 for years before I heard this,, and i have friends that shoot 9mm 147 fp BB,, lead with no . Use PC Bullets. . POLYLUBE HYBRID COATING TECHNOLOGY Precision Bullets PolyLube! It's a matter of value. bullets can be pushed faster with no leading. Early KTWs were coated with Teflon. I threw out all my shooting trophies years ago. There's a couple of gun shops selling black coated bullets as "Teflon coated". Teflon was used on some types of armor piercing ammo because the hard metal cores would erode the rifling in the barrel. Applying flare/belling the mouth of the case is extremely important when loading powder coated bullets. That's my understanding of the sitiation. Teflon coated cables are much better in the initial stages of life. Thousands were shot (not by me), and there were no issues with the design or use of teflon. Teflon is a synthetic chemical made up of carbon and fluorine atoms. Great for semi auto shooters using enhanced sights in Competition like IPSC and Speed Steel. Share this: But, even when PFOA is used, it poses little or no harm to your health. During the early 1980s, there was quite a bit of controversy about teflon-coated bullets. Dramatically reduced smoke. Federal's American Eagle 9mm Luger Ammo features a 150 grain Total Synthetic Jacket bullet. Big game hunters praise this bullet for its proven precision and immediate knockdown power on the target. But we all know how theory often differs from reality, don't we? used to describe someone who manages to avoid criticism and keep a good reputation, even after they have done something wrong: The Teflon President survived the crisis with his reputation intact. What do you mean by that? The inventors, having also noted that the tips of canes were frequently covered with the relatively soft and malleable Teflon to help them grip surfaces, found that the addition of Teflon helped to prevent bullet deflection off of vehicle doors and windshields, further improving penetration against those surfaces.[2][3]. 2. Well, the first problem is that the rounds did actually work pretty well. Ronin is an anti-gun screed. For self-defense, there are a number of more exotic bullet types available with the jacketed hollow point (JHP) leading the pack with bullet weights of around 165 to 230 grains. * NOTES: Factory bullets for use in a Glock go all the way up to a BHN of 24; but, for most purposes, 24 is too much hard a value for cast lead. Various gun control groups called these rounds "cop killers." The report claimed that the bullets could defeat police body armor. This is why its used in non-stick cookware, as a lubricant, and numerous other commercial applications. "Quotes on the internet are not always accurate" - Abraham Lincoln. Compared to our grandfathers and even our fathers, we get to enjoy more choices for bullet design; these choices include polymer-coated bullets. I understand that lead is harmful to our glock's barrel so is this a good alternative for my glock? [li]Oklahoma - Teflon-coated bullets are illegal in Oklahoma under some circumstances. I averaged around 150 rounds per week, between matches and practice. Remember the Wnchester Black Talon? Coated with our proprietary PolyLube, Precision Bullets gives you the precision of jacketed ballistics in a swaged lead bullet. Other coatings for bullets include molybdenum disulfide, wax, and other proprietary films. The 9mm wax-lubed bullets averaged 1080 fps and the Hi-Tek coated bullets averaged 1071 fps. So when 50 cent says hes got teflon on (his) chest it may be a bulletproof vest, but the teflon is NOT the bulletproof material. The GUN LAWYERS board Free gun related legal advice. (.430) 240 Grain SWC Coated Bullet $ 36.00 - $ 70.00 Select options The federal ban on armor-piercing pistol ammunition uses only the composition of the bullet's core to determine legality. . Polymer Coated bullets use a different process that is more of a plastic paint and is usually applied in a liquid form, dried and then heat set to about 375F for ~8 minutes, and repeated several times. These bullets (Herter's TNJ-total nylon jacket) solve the lead/fouling problem for a lot less money than powder coating. As you know, shooting lead bullets in a poly-rifled barrel like the Glock can quickly lead to unwanted deposits of lead in the barrel that can lead to dangerous pressures. I think it was S&Ws and later Federals Nyclad Bullets that had everybodys bowels in an uproar. Polymer-coated bullets, which we typically associate with shooting handguns, create unique advantages and could help you shoot safer, cleaner, and with greater reliability. Strangely, there is a wikipedia article on "cop killer bullets" which says one penetrator had a hard core with teflon coating to minimize ricochet off hard surfaces such as metal and glass. For magnums, where you want true magnum performance, look to powders near 2400 and 296/H110. Of course he used a pseudonym so that might say something there. Hornady Custom .40 S&W 155 Grain eXtreme Terminal Performance Centerfire Pistol Ammunition, 20, JHP $33.99 (Save 26%) $24.99 $1.25/Round. Copyright 2023 National Rifle Association. I have a few facts and a lot of opinions. Teflon was used on some types of armor piercing ammo because the hard metal cores would erode the rifling in the barrel. We would like to show you a description here but the site won't allow us. I think the only remotely political statement in that movie is everyones complete disregard for the lives of innocent bystanders. However, some manufacturers continue to coat their bullets with various compounds, notably Teflon and molybdenum disulfide, as a protective layer against barrel wear. This whole cop killer bullet was/is B.S.! 380 Round Nose 9mm 115grain Round Nose 9mm 124gr Round Nose 38 148gr Double Wadcutter 38 158gr Round Nose 38 158gr Semi-Wadcutter 40 165gr Flat Point 40 180gr Round Nose Flat Point 45 230gr Round Nose Buy PC Bullets Are you a reloader? product and of course they come in our signature The green Teflon (black teflon for several large bore calibers) material added to the bullets was designed to actually grip smooth surfaces such as glass and metal, and not to make it "slip" easily through kevlar. The GUN LAWYERS board Free gun related legal advice. The only ones i kept was trap & skeet 97 out of 100 & Civilian/Police combat shooting in Hunt. Uhhhh no, sorry. So by the looks of it so far, it will be safe to use guys? USA Shooting athletes to compete at 2023 International Shooting Sport Federation Shotgun World Cup in Doha, Qatar. .45 ACP 230 Gr. RN - Sized to .452 (Typical). Only place I could find them was at L. B. CA. The teflon was meant to actually slow down/catch the bullet in barriers rather than help it penetrate? Shows like NCIS and Law & Order still and often purpetrate this. Many erroneously focused on the Teflon coating as the source of the bullets' supposedly increased penetration, rather than the hardness of the metals used. Care must be taken not to remove (scrape) the coating off the bullet as it is being seated. Secure Online Ordering %local_inventory_count% Free Shipping! [5] However, many individual states have legislation restricting various kinds of coating materials, for example: Last edited on 16 February 2023, at 20:10, Learn how and when to remove this template message, "Interview with an inventor of the KTW bullet", "Code of Alabama, 13A-11-60: Possession or sale of brass or steel teflon-coated handgun ammunition", "Hawaii Revised Statutes, 134-8: Ownership, etc., of automatic firearms, silencers, etc., prohibited (a)", "Kansas Statutes, Chapter 21, Article 63, 21-6301 (6): Criminal use of weapons", "North Carolina General Statutes, Chapter 14, Article 8 34.3: Manufacture, sale, purchase, or possession of teflon-coated types of bullets", "Oklahoma Statutes: Title 21 1289.19: Restricted bullet and body armor defined", "Oregon Revised Statutes, 166.350(a): Unlawful possession of armor piercing ammunition", "Consolidated Statutes, Title 18 6121. Virginia state law specifically bans "bullets, projectiles or other types of ammunition that are: coated with or contain, in whole or in part. 3. Not a gimmick at all and nothing like the teflon coated armor piercing bullets. But when fired at close range, rubber bullets can penetrate the skin, break bones, fracture the skull and explode the eyeball, he said. So when 50 cent says hes got teflon on (his) chest it may be a bulletproof vest, but the teflon is NOT the bulletproof material. Molybdenum-disulfide, known as Moly, is a black, slick compound used to coat copper jacket bullets. Teflon coated bullets cannot penetrate body armor. Initial testing has proven the polymer coated bullets to be more accurate with a dramatic It's been demonstrated by hundreds of competitive Glock shooters who run (properly loaded) hard-cast lead bullets that leading can be reduced or eliminated, so that just leaves the second issue: Accuracy. Do Not use commercial soft (wire spool/stamped) lead bullets. ), Accessories Wanted (Parts, Magazines, Stocks, Scopes, Reloading etc. For example, Mason Williams in 1973: Wishing to retain the tungsten alloy and yet design the bullets for use in handgun barrels, the next step was to reduce the dimensions of the bullets so that the tungsten alloy could not come into contact with the barrel lands. 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So the only benefit I can see would be would be that the speed may increase. The two bowls contain the media, moly, and bullets and then go into a vibratory-type tumbler. I remember the contriversy well. A stepped down area at the base further reduced the diameter of the tungsten alloy. The technical storage or access that is used exclusively for anonymous statistical purposes. Are coated bullets any good? Go to Parent Category: 9mm Ammo Filter By: They too were quickly relegated to police only. Key Point: These are the bullets that will do the most damage to the human body. The first reference pretty clearly says no reloads and no lead bullets. The swedish 9mm 39B penetrates IIIA west, and that ammo has been around for 50 years.When i did service in the Swedish army i had a Carl Gustaf 45B submachine gun 9mm and did shoot severel thousends rundsticka.Sorry for bad english. This bit of news reporting went 90s-viral, and cop killer bullets became a common talking point for the powerful anti-gun groups of the 1990s. "Isn't it always illegal to commit a crime? Years of research have gone into sophisticated jhp bullet designs that allow for maximum expansion upon impact with a target. SKU : Model : UPC : 850040234022. U.S.A. - - (Ammoland.com)- In 1982 NBC ran a "Prime Time" special on Teflon-coated bullets labeling them "armored piercing . Compare. All Glocks--except the Glock .45-- use polygonal rifling, so lead bullets can cause buildup---and quick . ), Accessories Wanted (Parts, Magazines, Stocks, Scopes, Reloading etc. The inventors named their company "KTW," after their initials. Only pointing out that anti-gun comments arent innocent. Police Successes and Positive Interactions !! Guys what's your opinion about teflon coated bullets? Yes, I too await the results Ellis gets. Less than 5 in stock Item #: AM96511 $0.21 per piece. Despite the widespread ban on military use, hollow-point bullets are one of the most common types of bullets used by civilians and police, which is due largely to the reduced risk of bystanders being hit by over-penetrating or ricocheted bullets, and the increased speed of incapacitation. In 1980, continued production of the ammunition was turned over to the North American Ordinance Corporation. If the bore of a firearm is rough due to poor maintenance or poor machining, Hi-Tek will not work as intended. Figure 4. In reality, as noted above, Teflon and similar coatings were used primarily as a means to protect the gun barrel from the hardened brass bullet, and, secondarily, to reduce ricochet against hard, angled surfaces. "[]while Virginia makes it illegal to use teflon coated bullets to commit a crime. Glocks shouldn't--shoot lead bullets. Bch. Oh an the bullet would not stick to you . Eish .. marketing. Thanks for all your inputs guys. Several of the various calibers of KTW rounds produced could, in fact, penetrate police vests, under certain conditions. This is still pushed by a PC media. Critics kept complaining about Teflon's ability to penetrate body armor [] In fact, Teflon cut down on the round's ability to cut through the nylon or Kevlar of body armor."[2]. The Teflon coated bullets as we know them today were originally developed by a company called KTW, Inc. KTW did in fact set out to design a bullet that had better barrier penetration capabilities than the common service rounds in use in the 60s and 70s; they accomplished this by using a projectile constructed primarily of brass with a steel core. Im sure that line was put in there because it sounded cool and because it had been in the news lately, but not because they actually believed it. enhanced sights in Competition like IPSC and Speed Steel, Coating does not rub off on your hands The polymer coated The bullet was then coated in teflon to keep the harder metal from damaging the gun's barrel. Barrel Length: 16" Barrel Material: Chrome-Moly Vanadium Barrel Profile: A2 Style Chamber: .308 WIN Twist Rate: 1 in 10" Extension: M4 Gas System: Mid-Length Gas Block Type: Low-profile 5 position click switch adjustable gas block Upper Receiver: Forged 7075 T6 Aluminum Receiver Style: PA10 Flat top with Feed Ramps Receiver Finish: PSA Custom Teflon Coated Traditional wax lubed and identical coated bullets used for accuracy comparison. purchasing or giving away any cartridge that can be fired by a handgun and has a plastic-coated bullet that has a core of less than 60% lead by weight, whether the person knows or has reason to know that the plastic-coated bullet has a core of . Oregon state law forbids the "[possession of] any handgun ammunition, the bullet or projectile of which is coated with Teflon" while committing or intending to commit a felony. That said, there are a few general advantages we can identify. This lefty PC crap must be fought! moly is used very regularly. They also have all legally owned guns registered and easily traced. Traditional lead bullets are cast (left) or swaged (right). The nonstick surface. The intent was to provide cops with AP capability against criminals in cars or buildings. Is there any lead residue in the barrel after use? However as they age they start to shed the coating, which gets trapped in the outer making them worse than a regular cable. New! Really great articlelove when facts are put up against the media, plus I learned something new! Last edited by oktavist; 12-29-2015 at 7:02 PM.. Reason: "all" should have been "some" $20.39. So, the general assumption made is that Teflon coated bullets have better armor penetrative properties than standard jacketed ammunition because of the Teflon. Which is funny because David Mamet wrote that movie and he is a long time competitive shooter and gun person. I have shot 100's of them through a Glock 17, the SR9c & the LC9 without issue & they are very clean. Without a subpoena, voluntary compliance on the part of your Internet Service Provider, or additional records from a third party, information stored or retrieved for this purpose alone cannot usually be used to identify you. Finally, it is up to the maker of the bullet to apply coatings correctly for best results. I admire Ellis for trying and putting in the time and $$$ for his testing. The polymer coated bullets produced slightly smaller 15-shot groups than the wax lubed bullets. Unlike social media and the news, nature has no incentive to keep us agitated, angry, and anxious. I don't see the reasoning/use for it.which is why I'm confused. After some experimentation with sintered tungsten-alloy Kennertium W-10 projectiles, which were eventually abandoned due to supply and cost concerns, the inventors settled on a bullet consisting mostly of hard brass and some with a steel projectile. Forgotten was the Remington Golden Saber. Polymer coated bullets combine several of the advantages of hard cast lead and jacketed bullets. If that sounds familiar, good, because a considerable amount of former Communist Bloc rifle ammo uses a mild steel core to achieve better barrier penetration. sounds like a screwing to me. Lead under FMJ is just fine. I bought some for 38 Spl ammo. A bullet with the same capabilitys but a more PC name. In Stock Before the 5.7 and Glock scares, we had teflon coated ammo . Prior (Nyclad) and current (Syntech) coated bullets in Federal ammunition. how would the teflon coating differ from moly coated bullets? TPJ (total polymer jacket) projectiles are an excellent choice for a day at the range or for competitive shooting. In 1982, NBC broadcast a television special on Teflon-coated bullets that argued they were a serious threat to American law enforcement because of their supposedly increased ability to penetrate ballistic vests. Teflon coated bullets have a tendency to penetrate better. Government firearms used in attacks or robberies, Firearms, Accessories and Related Equipment Video Clips, Adventures, Outdoors, Conservation and Cooking, Nature Conservation and Wildlife Discussions, Shooting Associations, Representatives, Organisations and Clubs, Mpumalanga Practical Shooting Association - IPSC, North West Practical Shooting Association (NWPSA), Shooting / Sporting Events, Matches, Days, Classifieds - Firearms, Guns and Accessories for Sale and Wanted, Accessories for Sale (Parts, Magazines, Stocks, Scopes, Reloading etc. I was the one that posted the fictional POST. 5 Slot, West Virginia Gov. They were quickly relegated to police/military only. Recognized for its strength, Kevlar thread is more than twice as strong as nylon or polyester thread. Enter the mainstream media; in 1992 or 1993, NBC News ran a hit piece on cop killer bullets, which in typical MSM fashion focused not on the projectile itself but rather on the Teflon coating. Isn't that the stuff that they coat non-stick cooking pans with? TWICE the velocity? Primer: Federal 100 Case: Federal LOAL: 1.145 Safe to use Teflon-Coated bullets in a Glock 23 or CZ 75. What makes a good armor penetrating bullet is the bullet profile (shape), diameter (the smaller the better), and the construction material. They were probably talking about moly. That means a small caliber with extra ammunition power can be a dangereous weapon?? The production of KTW-branded ammunition eventually ceased in the 1990s. JavaScript is disabled. Of course you havent seen it, youre talking from the currently fashionable paranoid world view. In 1982, NBC ran a television special on the bullets, supposedly against the requests of many police organizations, wherein it was argued that the bullets were a threat to police. I shot 200 grain SWC cast, exclusively. Now the world at large remembers Teflon coatings on bullets as some sort of magical round that zips through bullet proof vests because of the magic of Teflon. We recorded an average muzzle velocity of 846 fps with the G43X. Now we have ballistic tip ammo and they are not even considered hollow points. My chrony data from 1998 shows me getting a 10 shot average velocity of 1057fps out of my G19. I have tested numerous calibers against numerous types of vests, with all the results on youtube. After some experimentation with sintered rounds, which were eventually abandoned due to supply and cost concerns, the inventors settled on a bullet consisting mostly of hardened brass with a steel core. S&W I believe only had 357 mag teflon coated bullets in the 70s-80s. (The two NCIS shows are especially bad in the constant use of fully automatic weapons by bad guys. Say hello to the Aero Precision EPC-9 PCC, Vista Outdoor Back Ordered to the tune of $1 Billion. With this design, all the advantages of the tungsten alloy were retained and yet thousands of rounds could be fired through a handgun barrel without excessive wear. . Black Talon is a brand of hollow-point pistol and rifle ammunition introduced in 1991 by Winchester, primarily intended for law enforcement and personal defense use. Find a Range When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. Teflon coated bullets cannot penetrate body armor. Made famous by Winchester, the Ballistic Silver Tip bullet is considered to be one of the most devastating bullets for big game. Teflon is the nylon-type fabric used for the outside of the vest, while kevlar is the bulletproof material inside. The production of KTW-branded ammunition eventually ceased in the 1990s. Now, nevermind for a moment that as near as I can tell, S&W never made a teflon coated round, lets instead put a bullet in the entire grand myth of teflon coated rounds. .40 S&W 180 Grain Flat Point No Lube Groove - Black Coated - 1000ct. Smith & Wesson has released a new optics-ready 9 mm folding pistol carbine called the M&P FPC. Both are lubed with a waxy lube. We carry a number of different caliber bullets in 9mm, 38/357, 40 Cal., and 45 Cal.. Our customers use our coated bullets to shoot Cowboy action, USPSA, IPSC, IDPA Steel and more. Looking at a box of them right now 1 of 100 @ 7.95 per box of 20. North Carolina state law specifically forbids persons in that state to "import, manufacture, possess, store, transport, sell, offer to sell, purchase, offer to purchase, deliver or give to another, or acquire any Teflon-coated bullet". Some coated cast bullet makers include a design with no lube groove in their lineup (right) in addition to the traditional design with a lube groove (left). Teflon coated bullets were an interesting side track on projectile development, but have fallen into the dustbin of history due to an inaccurate hit piece by the mainstream media. The federal ban on armor-piercing pistol ammunition uses only the composition of the bullet's core to determine legality. When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. The Teflon did not affect interior ballistics. Police and Uniform Supply. Ive seen TV programs pushing microstamping. Government firearms used in attacks or robberies, Firearms, Accessories and Related Equipment Video Clips, Adventures, Outdoors, Conservation and Cooking, Nature Conservation and Wildlife Discussions, Shooting Associations, Representatives, Organisations and Clubs, Mpumalanga Practical Shooting Association - IPSC, North West Practical Shooting Association (NWPSA), Shooting / Sporting Events, Matches, Days, Classifieds - Firearms, Guns and Accessories for Sale and Wanted, Accessories for Sale (Parts, Magazines, Stocks, Scopes, Reloading etc.