*NEW* Firestone Firehawk Indy 500!! the Michelin Pilot 4s or Continental Extreme Contact are the better summer only tires. User Tag List Page 1 of 2 1 2 > Thread Tools Search this Thread The Following User Says Thank You to Yoshoobaroo For This Useful Post: DarkPira7e (03-25-2019) I've been running a set of Firehawk Indy 500s on my wife's car for a few years. Not sure why someone said "if you care about handling" buy the 4S. I havent tracked the car with either tire so i cant comment on that. Join me in wishing them the best of luck this upcoming racing season! Meanwhile, the Michelin Pilot Super Sport has a short 30,000-mile warranty. Michelin Pilot Sport 4 SUV vs Toyo Proxes ST; Firestone Firehawk Indy 500 vs Toyo Proxes ST; Toyo Proxes ST vs Yokohama PARADA Spec X; Continental ContiMaxContact MC6 vs Toyo Proxes 4; Toyo Proxes 4+ vs Toyo SNOWPROX S 942; Toyo Proxes ST vs Goodyear EfficientGrip 2 SUV; Hankook Ventus ST RH06 vs Toyo Proxes ST; Vredestein Quatrac Pro vs Toyo . However, Firestone is more affordable and is a great budget option. 1 - 6 of 6 Posts This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. As the official tire for the coveted racing event, the Indianapolis 500, the Firestone Firehawk Indy 500 is a superb tire built for speed and maximum performance. How much does a Firestone weigh vs a pilot 4s? Loud as fuck though. I have been very curious about how PSC2's compare to RE 71R's but I stayed away due to their being painfully expensive and, up to last year, their 180 TW rating would, A post shared by Michael R (@ramseyethetrackguy), Falken Azenis RT615k+ Street and Track Review. So the All season tire will have better wet/cold weather grip but the indy 500 will have better dry/summer grip however still have decent wet weather grip. PS4S are do-everything tires for street/spirited/light Autocross. Im running them on 18x8 could I fit a 245 or 255 cuz Id definitely go wider if possible. I lived in the southeast and never needed anything special for the winter. Been reading some pretty good reviews about these Firestone Firehawk Indy 500's and they're half the cost of the Michelins and I was wondering if anyone has any experience running these two tires and how they compare as far as Grip, noise and wear. The Firestone Tire & Rubber Company is an American manufacturer, founded by Ohio native Harvey S. Firestone in 1900. However, if your new Firehawk Indy 500 tire has a manufacturing defect, Firestone offers a 5-year service and materials coverage, with a free replacement for the first 3 years. For that price range they are good but once you start spending a more money they are nothing special and there are plenty of tires out there which are better, I have been in cares at autoX who run these tires & i was unimpressed but that's racing. For a tire I'm driving on the street I am never going to be pushing them to their limits on public roads. I hope weve shed some light on which summer tire is better in this Firestone Firehawk Indy 500 vs Michelin Pilot Super Sport comparison. This page was generated at 11:38 AM. I also think that the PS4S handles low temps (under 40 degrees) a little better. Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2's vs Bridgestone Potenza RE-71R's, 2020 G80 BMW M3 to bring More Than 500 hp, AWD, Lamborghini Aventador LP 770 SVJ Nurburgring Record (Video), How Limited Slip Diffs Make You Faster on Track, 2007 Saleen Mustang S281 SC Super Shaker Track Review, Michelin PSS vs Firestone Indy 500 Track Review. While an Indy car tire cost is more manageable, it's not exactly the best economical choice. Just by the name itself, racing enthusiasts can recognize this tire immediately. I've run them on a few vehicles (summer temps only) for mostly daily driving but also a free autoX events a month and maybe a couple lapping nights a summer as well. And with Michelin, expect cutting-edge technologies with this one. Firestone vs Michelin Winter tires Based on our research, Firestone has the better winter tire, the Winterforce. I have put 12000km on them (this includes 3 autocross sessions) and they will only last about 3-4k more until hitting the wear bars, based on my estimations. Found the Indy 500 to be harder, not grip as well in dry or wet. Post Reply Thread Tools Search this Thread Post Reply Bookmarks My Yahoo! Bridgestone Dueler H/T 684 vs Toyo Proxes ST; Michelin Pilot Sport 4 SUV vs Toyo Proxes ST; Firestone Firehawk Indy 500 vs Toyo Proxes ST; Toyo Proxes ST vs Yokohama PARADA Spec X; Toyo Proxes ST vs Goodyear EfficientGrip 2 SUV; Hankook Ventus ST RH06 vs Toyo Proxes ST; Vredestein Quatrac Pro vs Toyo Proxes ST; Hankook Kinergy 4S2 vs Toyo Proxes ST No, Michelin Pilot tires are always some of the best high-performance tires in the market. These include wider shoulders for optimal cornering and a specialized rubber compound for traction. I dont know about the ps4s though. That seems to be the consensus of everyone who's tried them as well, it's hard to complain about the value. Firestone Firehawk Indy 500 vs Michelin Pilot 4s; Page 2 of 3 First 1 2 3 Last. Firestone Firehawk Indy 500 vs Michelin Pilot Super Sport, which is better? Although summer tires have excellent grip and handling, these feature come at a relative costcomfort. Looking for tires that perform best in the spring/summer and dry/wet conditions. Good in the wet too as you've already experienced. The tread is built of strong one-ply polyester casing along with twin steel belts. Both are summer tires, so they pretty much function the same way, providing outstanding wet and dry performance. If you are in the latter group, we seem to be good so far with continuous upgrades to the 5.0 litre Coyote and the brand new Shelby GT500 which still uses a supercharged V8 as it has been for over a decade and multiple iterations. However, the Firestone Indy 500 treadwear rating is only 340, which is fairly average. :deal: Dodge this ! I want lightest stickiest possible. I bet the roads are 150+ easily out your way. I consistently got over 1 Lateral G. Quite often 1.1g and a few just under 1.2g (1.19g). Speed has, and always will be, the pinnacle of cars. Compared the similar offerings such as the Bridgestone Potenza RE-71R or the Michelin Pilot Super Sport, the Falken RT615k+ is cheaper. I can understand that statement from those of you in the northeast or upper midwest, but if you live in the desert west or southwest, where road temps will easily get to 120+ degrees and ambient temps are 100+ in the summer, you need summer-compound rubber. Whats interesting is Firehawk is almost always cheaper. It is very affordable, and unless you drive aggressively, this tire is a good all-rounder as a high-performance variant. I run them as my car is a daily driver and they are superb for the price. So today, well explore two max-performance summer tires from Michelin vs Firestone and determine which will reign supreme on the tarmac. If you want a one tire fits all, then this is the one to get. I highly recommend the General GMax RS. The steering feedback is a little numb but again gets better with some heat. In fact, being 46 this morning and light drizzle I figured I'd really find their weakness, but none was to be found, as they hooked much better than expected. Noise can be an issue, and it can spoil your drive when you hear that distinct growling sound from your tires. Firestone still continues making OEM tires today and is the exclusive tire supplier of the famous Indy race event. I destroyed a set with 8/32" tread left in just two days. If the ground's not frozen, this tire will perform. Now: 2017 Corvette Grand Sport, 2021 AMG C63 S sedan Past: 2011.5 M3 sedan ZCP. If youre looking for a budget friendly A/S Ive been very impressed with my BFG Gsport Comp 2s, theyre a Michelin sister brand and and come in about $25 less per tire than PS4s, Im planning on buying them again. The Destination A/T, for instance, is quieter than the Discoverer ST MAXX. This is due to its reasonable price, which starts at $83, its long-lasting performance, and its good grip. Both offer top performance but the Indy is cheaper. If you only have one set of wheels and plan to drive on street and on track, the PS4s are the ticket. I'm actually torn between putting some up front on my car or if I'm going to breakdown and finally give some Michelin Pilot Sport 4s a try. $269.99. After reading your review for both street and track, I would say again, my experience is the same, i.e., great street tire, OK track tire, but overall, great value. This is too much for our liking because water naturally decreases traction, and when there is less grip, the tire becomes harder to control. Honestly for the price the Indy 500 perform comparably as well as the michelin in street driving. The question is what are you going to do with the car? I bought one set and it was on a car that had Indy 500 prior and it was night and day in grip. American Trucks recently got together two crew cab, short box, 4x4 F150's but one has the 5.0 litre V8 and the other has the 3.5 litre EcoBoost V6. It used to be called the indu 500 wideoval, and they were as you say, not great in the dry and terrible in everyrhng else. Firestone Firehawk Indy 500. Now that you know what these tire giants offer, lets talk about their differences through a tires brands comparison. A good comparison for this line is the Firestone Firehawk Indy 500 Vs Michelin Pilot Sport 4s. I would also add that the PS4S feels softer and is a more comfortable tire in terms of ride quality. While this wont bother you on the racetrack due to roaring engines, it can get very noticeable during casual rides. They eventually made the first non-skid tires, which was groundbreaking technology at the time. My goal is to create a trusted platform where people can go to determine what is best for their vehicles in terms of safety and convenience. They aim for speed and agility, so the tires are very responsive to your input. Michelin Pilot Sport 4S Run Flat. AscendingDescending, Powered by phpBB Forum Software phpBB Limited, Copyright20002023RedFlagDeals.com. Current tires: Pilot Sports A/S 3 - these are better than any all-season tire should be for the street, but I want to increase the handling a bit more. In response to the claims, the president of Firestone Natural Rubber told a CNN interviewer that "each tapper will tap about 650 trees a day, where they spend perhaps a couple of minutes at each tree." GTR vs Evo X vs STI: which has the best AWD system? All-seasons just can't keep up with such extremes, unless you don't need to get to the ski resort at 8am for first chair or don't mind driving below the limit of your tires, rather than your car, in the summer. https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.js 4WR7A052XL, [Sumo Citrus] Our database contains information regarding the performance of different tires, which we calculate from public data, tire tests, and forum reviews. It is W speed rated and the UTQG rating of the tire is 340AA. Thats it for our Firestone vs Michelin tires debate. I went from MPSS to the Indy500, albeit 2cm wider front and back. Giant Trudeau Pepper Mill $19.97 (60% off. I guess I know enough about them now to go with the Pilot sport 4s, I really like the Super Sports, but I was wondering if these Firehawk Indy 500's would be a bargain that offered the same performance as the Michelins. A post shared by Michael R (@ramseyethetrackguy) on Sep 8, 2020 at 4:43pm PDT, I got a 218 370Z wide and I need rear tires it wore out after 1 year I'm thinking of the Hawkeye Firestone or the Michelin pilot sport the Michelin star $150 more at Sam's club what do you recommend performance is not as important to me since I don't race but noise sound is thank you. Been reading some pretty good reviews about these Firestone Firehawk Indy 500's and they're half the cost of the Michelins and I was wondering if anyone has any experience running these two tires and how they compare as far as Grip, noise and wear. They were first introduced as Original Equipment for some of the most sophisticated high-performance vehicles, including the limited-edition Ferrari 599 GTO. I loved the Indy 500 so much i bought them for my old Mini Countryman that i used as a daily. It is joined with nylon reinforcement to give you responsive handling and high-speed ability. The LE3s predecessor is as reliable too and is competitive if we try a Firestone Destination LE2 vs Michelin Defender differentiation. This technology also reduces the tires weight to be comparatively 10% lighter than similar tires of the same size. In 1903, Firestone was making its own tires, which became an instant hit. 0.0 (0 . The Indy 500 was redesigned (or rebadged) less than 5 years ago IIRC. Designed to enable maximum performance in moderate to high temperatures, Firehawk Indy 500 make use of the latest tire-making technology. I feel like they have a wider operating temperature and more straight line grip. Continental ExtremeContact Sport 02. Though of course it still doesn't beat having dedicated summer and winter tires. If you're on a budget, there is one very attractive option that has been getting a massive amount of hype lately, and that's the Firestone Firehawk Indy 500. Lots of good info already in this thread. The Indy 500's are not comparable in terms of max performance. Yokohama Geolandar H/T G056 vs Nitto NT555; Firestone Firehawk Indy 500 vs Nitto NT555; Nitto NT555 vs Michelin Pilot Sport 4 S; Michelin Defender LTX M/S vs Nitto NT555; Toyo Proxes Sport vs Nitto NT555; Hankook Dynapro HP2 vs Nitto NT555; Cooper Evolution H/T vs Nitto NT555; BFGoodrich g-Force COMP-2 A/S vs Nitto NT555; Nitto NT555 vs Nitto . 2016 S4: IE Stage I, IE CAI, AWE Touring Exhaust, CR-15, H&R Rear Sway bar w/ Moogs end-links, 034 Motorsport transmission mounts, Vorsteiner V-FF 103s in Machined Titanium. Maybe, but I found no defects. However, the Michelin Pilot Sport 4S is better in almost all categories, from wet and dry traction to comfort to even treadwear. It is still responsive and easy to control, so drivers have complete freedom over their performance. Until next time! (document.getElementsByTagName('head')[0] || document.getElementsByTagName('body')[0]).appendChild(hs); Michelin Pilot Sport 4S; Michelin Pilot Sport 5; Michelin Pilot Sport A/S + Michelin Pilot Sport A/S 3; Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2; Michelin Pilot Sport EV; Figure out your potential monthly payments and more with our mortgage calculator. . If this is a weekend car that sees an occasional track day I would encourage you to go MPS4S. What to note is that usually, they will wear faster due to the higher contact of surface to the ground, which makes them leave lots of rubber on the road. I loved those so much I bought another set for a different car too. A 255/40R18 sized Firehawk Indy 500 can set you back at around $247.99, while a Michelin Pilot Super Sport has a steeper price point at $273.63. Wheels / Tires -- Sponsored by The Tire Rack, https://tires.tirerack.com/tires/200%20Treadwear. The price difference may affect your buying decision, but if the goal is to get the most out of the budget, we still recommend the Indy 500. I have the fire hawks as my street tires and like them a lot compared to the mpss they replaced. While Indy 500 is impressive on a dry road, this tire tends to be aggressive on damp roads. They were directional. The tire itself is decent once you get some heat into them. And how many miles you get? Michelin Pilot Sport 4S. The vast majority of us don't track the car. However, it seems that Michelin is already replacing the Pilot Super Sport with their newer Pilot Sport 4S, which is an upgrade to the tires versatility. They offer an excellent grip on the road during warmer weather or on damp surfaces. Too much especially if you have lightweight rims. Hell I can see this even in my own driveway which is gravel, the PS4S annoyingly pick up and throw gravel and the Indy 500 did not. 4.5 (69) Reviews. They've got the same grip as the Firehawk, are quieter, and ride better. Some I'm planning on a new set of tires for my Car, currently have Michelin Pilot Super Sports and have been planning on Michelin Pilot Sport 4S. I run them year round in Michigans upper peninsula. Sign up now. As a performance tire, Firehawk and Michelin can only put a 50,000 miles tread warranty for these tires, which is lower than typical A/S variants. (Michelin Pilot Sport 3, Continental ContiSportContact 5, and Pirelli P Zero Rosso) and performed better (as expected though since the other tires a much older design . I will say that though the grip suffers when pushed, they don't snap/let go suddenly so they're very forgiving even past their limits. Are you running at Mosport, Calabogie or out west? How would a Mustang 3.5L EcoBoost compare to the 5.0L V8? Along with superb built quality, the tread depth is also very good ten 32nds Industry experts always include Michelin on their quiet tires list, especially the Defender, while Firestone product lines are nowhere to be found. Michelin Pilot Sport A/S 3 vs. Firestone Firehawk Indy500 As I have 16-inch rims on my Miata, my choices for performance tires with good thread life are quite limited. The Firehawk Indy 500 and Michelin Pilot Super Sport are good options if you want a responsive tire or get sporty handling on both dry and wet roads. Keep an eye out for our useful guide! Michelin Pilot Sport 4S vs 4S * (BMW) HT vs AT vs MT vs Winter; OE vs Aftermarket Tyres; Winter Tyres Tested at 0c to15c; I'd highly recommend these for the first HPDE track day. The. But Firestone tires are much more affordable, which makes them great choices for drivers who are looking for something cheap yet reliable. M2 Technical Topics > Wheels / Tires -- Sponsored by The Tire Rack > Firestone Firehawk Indy 500 vs Michelin PS4S review. I work for a tire company so I get cost. Indy 500, as the name suggests, is inspired by the racing performance, and this tire is available in a brand version like what you can check in our Firehawk Indy 500 Vs Bridgestone RE003. We also compare tire comfort in terms of noise and softness. Jump to page: . That gives you a comparison of tire performance on dry and wet roads, snow and off-road. We recommend summer tires with their maximum grip if you wish to improve handling. TireWheelGuide.com is made by a team of enthusiasts who has more than 10 years of experience in the tire industry, Firestone Firehawk Indy 500 vs Michelin Pilot Super Sport, Michelin Pilot Sport 4 vs Falken Azenis FK510, Michelin Pilot Sport 4 vs Yokohama ADVAN Sport V105, Michelin Pilot Sport 4 vs Michelin Pilot Sport 3 PS3, Michelin Pilot Sport 4 vs Bridgestone Potenza S001, Michelin Pilot Sport 4 vs Continental ContiSportContact 5P, Michelin Pilot Sport 4 vs Michelin Pilot Sport 3, Michelin Pilot Sport 4 vs Goodyear Eagle F1 Asymmetric 5, Michelin Pilot Sport 4 vs Michelin Pilot Sport 4 S, Michelin Pilot Sport 4 vs Michelin Primacy MXM4, BFGoodrich g-Force COMP-2 A/S vs Firestone Firehawk Indy 500, Michelin Pilot Sport 4 vs Michelin Pilot Sport A/S 3+, Michelin Pilot Sport 4 vs Continental ExtremeContact DWS 06, Michelin Pilot Sport 4 vs Goodyear Eagle F1 SuperSport, Michelin Pilot Sport 4 vs Kumho Ecsta PS31, Michelin Pilot Sport 4 vs Hankook Ventus V12 evo2, Michelin Pilot Sport 4 vs Michelin Premier A/S, Michelin Pilot Sport 4 vs Toyo Proxes T1 Sport, Michelin Pilot Sport 4 vs Pirelli Cinturato P7, Michelin Pilot Sport 4 vs Michelin Primacy 3, Firestone Firehawk Indy 500 vs Continental ExtremeContact DWS 06, Michelin Pilot Sport 4 vs Michelin CrossClimate, Michelin Pilot Sport 4 vs Michelin CrossClimate+, Goodyear Eagle F1 Asymmetric 2 vs Firestone Firehawk Indy 500, Firestone Firehawk Indy 500 vs Michelin Pilot Sport 3, Goodyear Eagle F1 Asymmetric 5 vs Firestone Firehawk Indy 500, Michelin Pilot Sport 4 vs Michelin Defender LTX M/S, Michelin Pilot Sport 4 vs Hankook Ventus S1 evo2, Michelin Pilot Sport 4 vs Cooper CS5 Grand Touring. Both are all-season tires and offer pretty similar performances, but the LTX has a slight edge in wet and dry handling. OK, so this past week has been nutty with regards to the weather and temperature. Those are gripping hard af, Ive heard good things about those Ill have to look into them. hs.src = ('//s10.histats.com/js15_as.js'); All Rights Reserved. Looking for a credit card? I have a set of firehawks on two different cars, no complaints for how i use the tires Mod list here deadmilenko Registered 2013 Oxford White Focus ST3 These tires came on a set of rims I bought for my '00 Civic SiR ( Canadian Si ) and I've been nothing but impressed. I bought the Pilot Sport A/S 4 last year. Looking for the right auto insurance plan? Regular Pilot Super Sport tires dont have run-flat capabilities. Which Sumi did you have ? A complete fluke. There is nothing we can complain about for their dry road performance. Which is better: Firehawk Indy 500 vs Pilot Sport 4S? _Hasync.push(['Histats.start', '1,4328811,4,0,0,0,00010000']); Is the a friends and family discount program? To put you up to speed, heres a comparison table between them. I now have 4S on both the 987s and S4 and love them. Upgrading to 245 or 255 would far surpass any minor increase in performance one brand over another. However, its durability is not as good as of its opponent. Some posts may contain affiliate links. The tires are very responsive, typical of summer tires, so small inputs are enough to drive them. The tire can carry loads up to 1477 pounds. I'm like 42lbs wheel and tire 19x10 and 255/35/19 michelin pss. Due to different demands, manufacturers can make tires with varying characteristics. Glacier White Metallic, Black Optics, DSG, sport diff, Nappa, B&O, AWE Touring/Res DP, GIAC ECU Stage 1, ECS CF rear diffuser, CR15 . Although Sport 4S faces more rolling resistance yet its sturdy tread composition makes it a more durable summer tire in comparison. We also compare tire comfort in terms of noise and softness. R18 - EXIST.ua 14 . Anyways you've answered my question about what tires I should run for my first HPDE track day. Keep an eye out for our useful guide! Cornering felt smooth and tight, while traction and general maneuverability were superb. I have the Generals on my M3 and the Firehawks on my 335d so I have a lot of miles on both for my comparison. It is not a place to buy/sell/trade or spread negativity/hate. This wont help you any, but I remember having a set of Indy 500's on one of my old cars and getting stuck in a literal. In comparison to the MPSS, my feedback is that they are: In that case then you are good with the Indy 500. What others have said about wet traction is true. Thankfully, my friends at YST Auto Halifax set me up with a great set of Superspeed RF03RR wheels. Wet performance is, I also hear very good things about the Goodyear F1 Eagle Supersport, when I swap up to 275/35 and 255/35 I'm thinking of Goodyear or Michelin Cup 2 / PS4S / PSS. In this comparison we are going to talk about: A tire is the extension of our car that generates traction and makes the vehicle tackle various roads or surfaceschoosing an ideal set of tires includes considering what type of application the vehicle is used for and what type of driving performance you want to have. They are ideal for drivers who want a sporty driving experience. Benzagel 5% benzoyl peroxide Wash, 85 ML $2.97 - 57% off. It has center circumferential grooves with Pulse Groove Technology for water evacuation, combined with two additional circumferential grooves to enhance water evacuation and improve stopping distance, even on wet surfaces. In comparison between Firehawk Indy 500 and Michelin Pilot Super Sport, we think Pilot Sport is still a better high-performance or Max performance tire. Acceptable only if youre cheap. S4 B8.5 no track, just enjoying spirited driving. Michelin Crossclimate 2 vs Premier A/S A Brief Comparison, BF Goodrich Advantage T/A Sport LT vs Michelin Defender. It will be a night/day difference between that and the no-season garbanzo beans. Copyright 2023 - PPMC-Transport. Does it mean the SuperSport is a bad option? Isn't the ps4s a summer tire and the psAS4 the all seasons? The choice is yours. Twaron is a polyamide cord, but it is lightweight and offers high strength above steel belts for high-speed application and durability. Find the best mortgage rates and see whats available on the market now. Summer high-performance tires are often expensive, so are they worth it? Tires for passenger vehicles 255 in auto parts online store 2407.pl Wide range of spare parts Good price Fast shipping Hotline 8:00-21:00 Cost can be quite tricky, since both have different tire prices by size. Michelin CrossClimate SUV vs CrossClimate 2 Comparison. They are almost identical on hand and very comfortable too. Achilles 122; Achilles 123 S; Achilles 2233; Achilles ATR Sport; Achilles ATR Sport 2; Achilles Desert Hawk H/T; Achilles Desert Hawk H/T 2; Achilles Desert Hawk UHP; Achilles Win It has an optimal tread design with asymmetry for better road grip. 2015 Daytona S5 - Madico Ceramic Tint 35/20 - 6 Speed - Mods - Sprintbooster V3 - APR Stage II - Dual Pulley - CPS Cooler - Eurocode ST Shifter - EuroImpulse weighted knob - USP SS Clutch Line - 034 SD Engine Mounts - 034 Trans Mount Insert - 034 rear SB - CR-15 - ORT Coilovers - SPC Front CAs - IE Non Res Downpipes - AWE touring w/ 102 tips - CTS intake - ECS Streat Shield - Deval CF Splwitter/Rear Valance - Signature SV901 Forged 19x10.5 wheels - 275/35 Mich PS4S Tires. For users logging in via Facebook. Michelin defender vs Firestone destination le3: Which is the better? As for winter applications, we think you can still drive them when transitioning to colder weather, but they are not made for snow or ice, so we may have to change the tire. Workers specifically claim that Firestone's high daily quotas force them to employ their own children, subjecting them to grueling and dangerous work conditions. Surprisingly, these tires also suffer from one minor drawback, and it is about the stiff compound. This is their unique rubber inspired by Le-Mans dry compound. It also has a decent UTQG rating of 340-A-A. Hey guys, I recently replaced my new Michelin Pilot Sport PS4S tires with the Firestone Firehawk Indy 500 and I thought I'd share my thoughts on the differences I've found.
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